General Phillies Chat -  THE ANSWER: TRADE WERTHnotify me whenever anyone posts in this discussionSubscribe  
 
From: joe9alt  Nov-7 12:58 am 
To: ALL  (1 of 36) 
 96302.1 

Let me start off this post by making clear that I'm a fan of Jayson Werth. How could I not be after the season he had? How could any of us not be?

That said, the way to catapult the Phils back to the top of the heap is to trade Werth.

It's not the only thing we need to do but it's definitely high up on the list of things that need to get done and get done well this off-season.

While I'm a fan of Werth I also believe that he's coming off of a career season. REPEAT: Jayson Werth will never be as good as he was in 2009.

That's why it's the perfect time to deal him.

Our Phillies are a unique team. We're a dominant yet we have gaping holes.

We need pitching. We need starting pitching and we need relief pitching. This is not in dispute by anybody.

I can't tell you the sinking feeling I had when seeing the Yankees array of homegrown young smokeballers (Joba, Coke, Hughes) as compared to our tired bullpen of retreads.

I'd rather fail with young smokeballers who will develop and get better for the experience than the Chan Ho Parks, Chad Durbins and Scott Eyres of the world.

And our starting pitching, aside from Lee, was in SHAMBLES this season.

I can't remember a year when I was HAPPY with a 4-5 run performance like I was so many times with Cole Hamels and Joe Blanton starts this year.

For all the grief Cholly withstood, did he have any other viable option than to start Pedro as our #2 starter in the Series?

No. He didn't.

And that's why we need starting pitching.

Werth can deliver us both starting and relief pitching.

And loyalty and admiration aside for his 2009 play aside, the time to deal the guy is now.

His contract is up after 2010.

Michael Taylor is MORE than ready to step in.

Werth's value will never be higher.

So let's deal Werth.

Let's put him in a package for Halladay or Haren (plus a good middle reliever).

Lets get daring and put him in a package for King Felix.

Let's turn over every stone and get the pitching we so desperately need.

Thank you, Jayson, but your time as a Phillie must come to an end for the good of the team.

 
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From: Ridgewood  Nov-7 4:06 am 
To: joe9alt  (2 of 36) 
 96302.2 in reply to 96302.1 

The fact that his contract is up limits his value. He will not bring you the No.2 you want. Hamels will be fine next year, and fill that role.

They want to make another run in 2010, and he is the only RH power hitter they have. You can not count on Taylor producing his level of power in his rookie season.

 
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From: Tasker  Nov-7 7:37 am 
To: joe9alt  (3 of 36) 
 96302.3 in reply to 96302.1 
Get rid of Werth and we'll never see another right handed pitcher. Ask Howard how he feels about that...
 
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From: korver4three  Nov-7 10:53 am 
To: Tasker  (4 of 36) 
 96302.4 in reply to 96302.3 

Werth is one of the big horses of this organization, hopefully he'll be around for another 5-6 years. Hes only 30 y.o.and in his 2 full time seasons he is averaging 30 HR close to 90 rbi's.

Fans(especially the girls) love him and he seems to get Philadelphia, Werth gets signed to a big contract here. If Werth produces early next year I could see 5 yr./$60-$70 M deal somewhere in the middle of the season.

This lineup desperately needs big RH stick and Werth is one of the best.

I think Michael Taylor is ready right now and his RH bat would look outstanding in this lineup, I could see Rube taking offers for maybe Ibanez(payroll flexibility) but not Werth.


Edited 11/7/2009 10:54 am ET by korver4three
 
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From: pattymac  Nov-7 10:56 am 
To: korver4three  (5 of 36) 
 96302.5 in reply to 96302.4 
I can't see messing up the one area that doesn't need fixing. We are covered on all bases if there are injuries and for 2010 should work on all the other weaknesses. Our outfield has 1 more great year in them.
 
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From: cheezsteaker  Nov-7 10:58 am 
To: joe9alt  (6 of 36) 
 96302.6 in reply to 96302.1 

that's nuts. Werth is the only right-handed power threat in this lineup. considering that he is also a very good outfielder with a very good arm, he is one of the hardest players to replace on this team right now.

he is one of the LAST players they should trade, period.

insane.

people are overemphasing the pitching problems.

hamels is dedicating himself this offseason to coming back strong, he will bounce back well.

lee, hamels, happ, blanton and whomever will be fine. the bullpen needs bolstering and 3B needs upgrading.

this team is ready and built to win it all otherwise. if they can add a solid #2/3 starter to solidify a 5-deep rotation great, but they should not mortgage the future to do it, since drabek will arrive soon.

 
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From: krukster  Nov-7 11:02 am 
To: joe9alt  (7 of 36) 
 96302.7 in reply to 96302.1 

NO WAY! This guy is the real deal, as evidenced by his play in the World Series. You don't trade away a legit 35-40 HR hitter who can hit even off great pitchers (as opposed to Ibanez who preys on #### pitchers).

Werth needs to be extended. He'll be a productive player for at least another 5-6 years.

Vic needs to go. He's got a Lenny Dykstra breakdown written all over him. Unload him now while he's at his peak value and sign Figgins to replace his bat in our lineup.

 
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From: dartmaned  Nov-7 11:03 am 
To: joe9alt  (8 of 36) 
 96302.8 in reply to 96302.1 
There are 2 flaws with your approach. The first is the Phillies don't have any other big bats from the right side. The other flaw is the pitchers you named are going to break the budget. I don't see the Phillies adding saleries next year. I would think about offering Werth for a real good RH power hitting 3b and letting Feliz walk. I would consider a deal for a top outfield prospect for a top 3b prospect.
 
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From: udarbyfan  Nov-7 11:34 am 
To: joe9alt  (9 of 36) 
 96302.9 in reply to 96302.1 

No way you trade the second best all around player on the team, second only to Utley. He has a huge upside. This is his first year starting, and the first seeing RH pitching on a regular basis. The League did not adjust to him, he adjusted to them and got better all year. He is the indispensable RH bat protecting Howard in the lineup. Without him, Howard gets nothing to hit except sliders and curveballs from LH pitching, against whom he hit .211. Vic in the outfield can cheat toward left field to help Ibanez since Werth has great range and a great arm in right. He wreaks havoc on the bases with his ability to steal, like the game where he stole 4 bases including home against the Dodgers. He should be locked up after 2010, and Taylor/Brown come in to gradually replace Ibby in 2011.

We don't have to rip apart the most productive lineup in the NL to improve our pitching. We just have to fix Hamels head and Lidge's knee and elbow, and fill the 5th spot from within. (Moyer, Kendrick, Drabek after July)
The priorities are super utility infielder, bullpen, bench, with emphasis on replacing Stairs, Bako, and getting a RH bat.

 
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From: bmcw  Nov-7 12:06 pm 
To: joe9alt  (10 of 36) 
 96302.10 in reply to 96302.1 
I don't disagree, when you don't win, anyone is expendable (with the possible exception of Utley), but only if you have a concrete plan that can make your team better. But trading Werth without a backup plan for power hitting right handed bat would not be a good decision....

bmcw

The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues.
- Elizabeth Taylor

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
- Jerry Garcia

 
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From: AndyS  Nov-7 12:22 pm 
To: joe9alt  (11 of 36) 
 96302.11 in reply to 96302.1 

They are not trading Werth. They need to sign him to an extension.

The one guy I could see them trading if the right deal came along is Victorino, but I doubt it.

Thank you Phillies!!!

Chris Pronger is a Flyer! Emery & Laperriere are Flyers! Stanley Cup, here we come!

 
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From: joe9alt  Nov-7 12:37 pm 
To: bmcw  (12 of 36) 
 96302.12 in reply to 96302.10 

I agree with everybody who is saying we need to find that replacement righthanded bat if we trade Werth.

I also agree in hindsight that the aces I listed are probably out of our price range even with the relief that trading Werth eventually would bring (that 90 million contract somebody suggest we give him would be available for somebody else).

I still think trading Werth is one of our only options on the trade market if we want to get any kind of return to help plug these holes.

We're not gonna get as much for Victorino.

We're not gonna get as much for Ibanez.

Michael Taylor is ready now so we have a cheap viable OF replacement that's ready now.

I'm all for targeting a young, inexpensive RH power hitting 3b as part of the deal or maybe even the cornerstone of the deal. Would the Nats consider parting with Ryan Zimmerman in a deal for a veteran leader and great all around player like Werth? It can't hurt to ask.

Standing pat should not be an option here. Those that say we're fine going into next season with the rotation as is and a bullpen full of washed up retreads trying to do it with smoke and mirrors are wrong.

But you have to give something to get something.

And unfortunately, time and circumstance dictates that you have to give Werth.

His value will never be higher.

 
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From: luck005  Nov-7 12:37 pm 
To: AndyS  (13 of 36) 
 96302.13 in reply to 96302.11 
I see Vic as the one guy the wont trade. He has the best arm in the outfield, the best speed. He has been steadily improving and he's cheap. Werth is hailed as 5 tool player by some, but not me. Werth is a good outfielder, but not very good. Werth has a strong arm, but it is a scatter arm. He might throw a perfect strike from short right field or he may throw s 4 hopper. Heck, might even throw a slider. To this point he hasnt hit for a high average, but I can live with that. I dont think the phils are interested in trading any of the OF this year, but I would be interested in moving Ibanez' salary to make room for a top tier pitcher. His money could also help facilitate an upgrade at 3B which some think we need.
 
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From: phillygrump  Nov-7 1:19 pm 
To: joe9alt  (14 of 36) 
 96302.14 in reply to 96302.1 

What would you trade him for? What would we need so bad it'd be worth losing Werth for?

Nothing in my opinion. We need this guy for a number of reasons.

Why is everyone so quick to shake up this team. I think we need to tweak. We need a bat off the bench and some closer insurance and maybe a 3b upgrade.

Utah! get me two.
 
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From: pattymac  Nov-7 1:31 pm 
To: phillygrump  (15 of 36) 
 96302.15 in reply to 96302.14 
Totally agree we don't need an overhaul. we need to fix our problems we have not mess up the ones we do not have and create problems. If 3 all star of's are not enough for next year I don't know what to say. Next season should be better the 2009 just by fixing the obvious holes.
 
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From: rzzzzz  Nov-7 1:46 pm 
To: joe9alt  (16 of 36) 
 96302.16 in reply to 96302.1 
you can't overestimate how big the loss of Romero was for us this past year. If he's pitching this past post season, Charlie starts Happ, who for all intense and porpoises was our #2. I think Cole will come back with a curveball, and Drabek will grab the fifth spot by the end of the summer. Taylor is in the wings, so the three real spots of concern are 3rd, closer and utility. Hopefully these can be addressed without taking righthanded power and a rightfield gun out of the line-up.
 
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From: WagnerSucks  Nov-7 2:29 pm 
To: joe9alt  (17 of 36) 
 96302.17 in reply to 96302.1 
Why would you trade Jayson Werth for Roy Halladay when you already could of had Halladay for less? Why would the Mariners trade Hernandez contract for Werth's? If they had the money they would just pay Felix. Trading Jayson Werth would probably be the dumbest thing this team could do.
 
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From: luck005  Nov-7 2:43 pm 
To: WagnerSucks  (18 of 36) 
 96302.18 in reply to 96302.17 
No trade is dumb if you get the right return. I would certainly trade Werth for Halladay.
 
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From: AndyS  Nov-7 2:47 pm 
To: luck005  (19 of 36) 
 96302.19 in reply to 96302.13 

I like Vic a lot, but I think he has hit the ceiling. The fact that he's not unduly expensive is what makes him a marketable trade chip. IF I were to see a trade, it'd be selling high, that's all.

Can't lose Werth - we need to add another RH bat, not subtract one.

Thank you Phillies!!!

Chris Pronger is a Flyer! Emery & Laperriere are Flyers! Stanley Cup, here we come!

 
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From: Ryan_Philly  Nov-7 3:06 pm 
To: joe9alt  (20 of 36) 
 96302.20 in reply to 96302.1 
The good thing about posts like this is that ideas as dramatically stupid as this will never be fulfilled.
 
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