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From: WorriedMom4  10/4/2006 8:57 am 
To: ALL  (1 of 9) 
 189.1 

Another school shooting. This time in my own state, Pennsylvania.

Another incident where the deranged shooter killed himself in the end, but only after shooting innocent young girls, and killing many.

This time it’s a small one-room school in the middle of normally serene and quiet Amish country. Just two weekends ago, my family went to Strassburg Railroad, minutes away from the school, and had a fun, innocent day seeing "Thomas the Tank Engine." Life as we knew it was simpler then, still carefree. No longer.

Each time I hear about another school shooting, another innocent child's life lost, my heart aches -- for the families and communities affected.

Another innocent soul taken so harshly from our world, with no reason. I can’t even imagine the terror they must have faced in the final moments of their lives – it’s just too painful a thought. I ache, too, for the loss of innocence suffered by those who were wounded or escaped the fate their classmates suffered. These children will never again feel the same carefree sense that they should as our future leaders and parents. They will never again feel completely safe in their schools.

With this constant dull ache, my mind immediately, and, sadly, thinks, “When will the next one happen? What state will it be in?” Not, “WILL there be another school shooting, but when.”

My thoughts also turn to my own still innocent daughter, just turning 4 October 4. What kind of world is she growing up in … where I can’t send her to school without a twinge of fear or hesitation? Right now she’s sheltered from the all-too-frequent news reports of war, death, violence and school shootings. I want to keep it that way, but know it won’t be possible. How can I possibly answer the question that will one day come … “Mommy, why do these bad people shoot children at schools?”

Then my thoughts turn angry. Anger at the twisted individuals who can’t just do us all a favor and commit suicide WITHOUT taking innocent lives along. Or, seek counseling or ask for help before letting lose on innocents and innocence. My anger builds as I think of the judges who let off previous offenders, who then turn more violent and commit acts of rape and murder. My anger grows yet more when I think of the so-called “powers that be” – representatives in Harrisburg, who vetoed efforts to pass more stringent gun control laws.

School shootings across the country, and random drug- and gang-related shootings in Philadelphia fill my daily paper every day. You can’t go to any news web site without coming across some reference to a shooting or innocent child caught in the crossfire. A 5 year old girl dies in her car seat, while riding in the car with her mom and brother.

Then my anger almost reaches boiling point at groups like the NRA and various other lobbyists on Capitol Hill who keep using the beyond outdated and pathetic slogan: “Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.” Yea right … but why help these people along by allowing easy access to weapons and lax laws allowing them to get guns easier than it is for me to change my name. And, I’d be willing to be anything that these “people” would kill FEWER people if there were NO GUNS at all!

When will our lawmakers realize the need to be more like Great Britain and other civilized nations, who don’t allow their citizens the “right” to own guns.

If anyone argues that hunters need their guns still … I say that the bow and arrow and traps worked for years, time for a refresher course! I abhor hunting anyway.

And, the right to bear arms? How about the right to protect our country’s future leaders? I again would be anything that our founding fathers never would have imagined the carnage their precious “arms” would have caused over the years, when they drafted our constitution. How can anyone have foreseen how sad and twisted people can be … that they can kill innocent children without remorse? If they could have traveled forward in time to see the damage reaped by this precious amendment, I know they would have changed their minds. Isn’t it about time WE did, too? How many more school shootings, innocent children massacred is it going to take? 10? 100? Enough is enough.

 
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From: Valfer  10/4/2006 10:12 am 
To: WorriedMom4  (2 of 9) 
 189.2 in reply to 189.1 

Madam,

I feel and understand your anger, fear and frustration, but I also must comment on your misguided opinion.

I am a father, a family man, a school administrator, a veteran of the Military, a former Federal agent and a responsible citizen. Having witnessed war, I wish for peace. Having seen killing in an enormous scale, I respect and protect human life. Having seen crime in many forms and the victims it leaves behind, I have a high regard for wise laws and effective law enforcement. I am a religious man, active in my church for many years. I am also a hunter, gun owner and target shooter, sports I have enjoyed for most of my life.

If I ever found one law which were to effectively curb gun violence while putting people in absolute safety from becoming innocent victims of an armed criminal, I would support it even at the cost of losing my favorite pastime and my significant investment in its implements. Unfortunately, such a law does not exist, has never been proposed, and is not in the agenda of the people who tell you they want to end gun violence.

Most of the politicians proposing ineffective and useless gun control laws are doing so in the knowledge that these laws will have no effect on the problem. They don't care if they don't, because these proposals serve their selfish purposes. From them, they gain votes and financial support from lobbyists. We have seen these rushes for legislation in 1934, 1966, 1986, 1994, and several other years. The laws have had no effect on the violence, but served to elect many politicians. I urge you to seek the facts, not the truisms published by propagandists.

There are two words in the phrase "gun violence". If you eliminate the gun, you still have violence, and it is violence which causes all the tragedies we witness daily. The gun is nothing but the unwitting implement held by the hand of the murderer. The same gun in the hand of a policeman is a life-saving device. Think about that.

I beg you not to lose your interest in these matters, keep an open mind and a true heart in our worthy search for peace in our day, and to remember that it is clear thinking, not slogans, what makes our country find progress.

Thank you for your attention,

V. Fernandez
 
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From: WorriedMom4  10/4/2006 10:38 am 
To: Valfer  (3 of 9) 
 189.3 in reply to 189.2 

Of course I wrote all of my previous post while still reeling from the latest tragic news in Lancaster.

However, I will support any law that helps reduce or eliminate or make harder to purchase handguns.

RE your statement: "There are two words in the phrase "gun violence". If you eliminate the gun, you still have violence, and it is violence which causes all the tragedies we witness daily. The gun is nothing but the unwitting implement held by the hand of the murderer. The same gun in the hand of a policeman is a life-saving device. Think about that."

I know that removing the gun doesn't remove the violence. However, YOU think of this ... that same man in Lancaster entering the building with his bare hands, or knives. Do you truly believe 5 children still would have died? Some many have died, some may be wounded, but I would without guns in this picture, there would have been less tragedy.

The same is true of the 5 year old girl killed in her car seat by a bullet. If THAT violent criminal didn't have a gun, he may have tried to ram the car, but I'd again bet the girl would have still been alive today.

Of course police officers need guns ... as do our military and anyone else in an official capacity who has been LICENSED and CERTIFIED and TRAINED to use the weapon. But, the average citizen and/or potential violent criminal most certainly does NOT need a gun.

Ideally would I like all guns abolished? SURE! But, realistically, REDUCING the amount of guns that are on our streets is a lot better "compromise" that I can live with.

I don't remember hearing about any crazed lunatics who took a whole school hostage with a knife or bow and arrow recently.

Thank you for responding to my previous post, and of course, being American allows us to have and express differing views -- and agree to disagree.

 
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From: Valfer  10/4/2006 12:09 pm 
To: WorriedMom4  (4 of 9) 
 189.4 in reply to 189.3 

Thank you for your reply, and thank you for allowing this dialogue.

I think that your focus on the gun is still not so fixed as to be unreasonable, and this is why I reply to you. When examining a crime, one must look beyond the obvious, and I will try to do so to a limited extent:

The man who killed the girls in Lancaster County could just as well accomplished his crime with a knife, a baseball bat, or one of many sharp farming implements found all over a rural area. Those poor fgirls had no defense against a violent and deranged man.

The child killed in Philadelphia was rifding next to her mother, an associate of a violent drug gang member, in a car a rival gang associated with him. It was drug gang warfare, not a gun, which caused the tragedy.

I am trained, licensed and certified to own and carry a firearm. Why should my rights be less than those of a policeman, or one of my former companions in the military or Federal law enforcement? Why should someone remove my firearms while leaving the criminals armed? I believe I have a right to be at least as well armed as the criminal stalking in a dark corner of the city. I'm not looking to find him, but I will be prepared if he finds me.

About reducing firearms: Which firearms will a law reduce? Those in hands of the police or the military? Obviously no. Those in the hands of violent criminals? No, they don't obey laws. The only reduction would be in the hands of honest, law-abiding citizens. This would open the door to violent criminals to double their capacity to commit their crimes.

No crazy lunatic has held a school hostage with a knife or bow and arrow, absolutely true, but the worst mass murders committed in the U.S. in more than a century were: 1 - In Oklahoma, by a man who made an enormous bomb using kerosene, sawdust and fertilizer. 2- in New York, where terrorists, armed with box cutters, flew two airliners into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center. No gun was used in any of the two, yet thousands of people died.

It's easy to blame the gun, but it achieves nothing. Puerto Rico enacted a gun confiscation act in 1954. Shortly thereafter, criminals, such as the infamous Correa Cotto, began roaming streets and countryside killing, raping and and robbing at will, unopposed by the unarmed people and elusive enough to avoid the police. The violence was such that the gun laws were relaxed, and now there is a campaign to repeal them. Violent crime in Puerto Rico remains the highest in the Nation.

Cicero once said: "The sword is but an implement in the hand of the murderer." Jesus said: "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword." The modern equivallent of the sword is the gun. Most of the people being killed in today's wave of violence are people who "live by the gun."

Let us work towards healing our society of the scourge of wanton violence, instead of wasting our effort trying to eliminate guns.

I bid you a fine day.

V. Fernandez
 
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From: WorriedMom4  10/4/2006 12:33 pm 
To: Valfer  (5 of 9) 
 189.5 in reply to 189.4 

I also agree that it's imperative, as you say, to rid the world of the "scourge of wanton violence."

I do what I can, by voicing my opinions, VOTING, and instilling good values of harmony and tolerance to others (no matter race or religion, etc.) in my 4 year old daughter.

But, no argument or statistics or historical references (including the one to 9/11 which, I know of course how unfolded) will ever make me change my mind or reconsider that *any* effort to reduce or eliminate the # of guns in our country is a "waste" of time or would be a bad thing.

Will bad things still happen if there are no handguns (or fewer) around? Absolutely. Bad people will be bad people and do bad things with or without firearms. But, as I said, I'm willing to bet it would save a few innocent lives -- more than those that may be ADDED to the "death toll" if gun laws were changed.

Thank you for your own efforts -- past and current -- to help stop lunatics, and for a well-thought out conversation this morning. Too bad others who are in "your camp" so to speak -- i.e. those who don't want any gun laws repealed/changed tend to be more radical and close-minded in their views/actions.

I don't intend to keep "beating" this "horse" in this forum. I think we've both adequately expressed our views and agree to disagree on this one.

 
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From: Valfer  10/4/2006 3:09 pm 
To: WorriedMom4  (6 of 9) 
 189.6 in reply to 189.5 

Dear WorriedMom4,

I beg you not to close your eyes to reason. It is quite clear that you have a genuine interest in making this World better for your daughter. It can only be done in good faith and with eyes open to ever wider horizons.

I find it dismaying to read a statement such as "no argument... will ever make me change my mind...". It is a postulation not in keeping with your lucid presentation.

I promise to respect your desire to end this exchange.

With my best wishes,

V. Fernandez
 
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From: WorriedMom4  10/4/2006 3:45 pm 
To: Valfer  (7 of 9) 
 189.7 in reply to 189.6 

OK, so I guess I'm not completely ready to end our lively, thought-provoking exchange.

But, I wanted to elaborate ... if you reread the paragraph below, I didn't say I was CLOSE-MINDED about the debate over gun control -- to do it or not. What I was trying to say in my statement is that I will NEVER believe that sharing my "two cents"/or that having fewer guns on the "streets"/posting my "open letter" are a waste of time (as many on the "other side" would suggest and have said before).

"But, no argument or statistics or historical references (including the one to 9/11 which, I know of course how unfolded) will ever make me change my mind or reconsider that *any* effort to reduce or eliminate the # of guns in our country is a "waste" of time or would be a bad thing."

Anyway ... thank you for an interesting exchange. Have a pleasant night.

 
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From: bp22  10/13/2006 10:00 am 
To: WorriedMom4  (8 of 9) 
 189.8 in reply to 189.1 
really well said!
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From: Poke  10/18/2006 2:24 pm 
To: WorriedMom4  (9 of 9) 
 189.9 in reply to 189.7 
I'm sure you've heard the old saying, "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". Before you dismiss it as another meaningless slogan, please consider carefully. Your stated desire is to have "fewer guns". Presumably you want the government to remove a portion of the existing guns from the general populus, ie confiscation. Let me ask you, who's guns do you think will be confiscated. Is it the typical gang-banger with an unregistered hand-gun under his pillow who's going to turn them over? Of course not. The only people who will lose their guns are the responsible, law abiding gun owning citizen like myself who are a threat to no one. Then the politicians will brag about their "success". You and others will cheer and pretent we are safer, but in reality all that you've accomplished is to make crime safer for the criminals. If you think strict gun control laws are the answer, and your upset with the PA legislature for not adopting them, you are free to move anywhere in the country. The strictest gun laws are in Washington DC. Perhaps you should consider moving there, where the oppressive gun laws have turned the City into a crime free utopia. (wink)
As for me, I'd rather live in Texas or Idaho where the criminals know that if they start shooting, there is a good chance a NRA card carrying redneck will shoot back.
Edited 10/18/2006 2:29 pm ET by Poke
 
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